CGTrader is taking our models for their Ai app whit no compensation to us !!!

I haven't received any email... apart from this, no one is safe for the AI about 2D images... for 3D data instead there should be a request whether to participate or not...

Maybe at first you should better learn for whom and for what purpose this platform was created before hysterical yelling that you were robbed and deceived.

I received a personal email from CGT about this and this is what I was told:
1) Its not used to train AI
2) If your products are chosen you are compensated for them (if you wish to participate)
3) Its a 3 month trial for their new AI product (basically 3D for people who dont know how to do 3D). If its a success then they will write a full legal FAQ which you can participate yes/no, they will not take your products from you without consent.

Wow. Bold accusations without all the facts.

First of all Ai image generators are not something that is legal, what is the difference between taking 2D image whit no consent and taking our 3D models ???? Or is it OK to take other people stuff as long as they do not take my? So as far as legality goes picture is very clear. If they have no problem taking one people stuff trust me they will not have any problem taking our stuff as well. Adobe took everything from their stock and did not pay a penny and are not planning to pay anyone anything.

Second you can not take someone's property and say I will give you couple of penny's if I want, when I want. You first ask if this is OK and then you can take it.

So again they are taking our 3D models whit no consent to generate a profit, they did not ask us if we want to participate they just took it. And if you learn anything from other platforms we will not get anything. The only difference is that when an image is use as a training data, that is hard to prove as you will need access to the training data and they are not obliged to show us that, at list until EU law gets in place. Here is very easy to see if your model is being used by them so it way more easy to start a legal process.

If they are doing a demo then they could have purchased a 1000 models and play around whit that.

Hello everyone :) I am here to clear some things up so we can all avoid speculating.

CGDream is our latest app that combines 3D models with AI to generate 2D visuals.

How are 3D models used?
They are ONLY used as guides for the composition of the final image. The 3D models or any other type of your data are not used for AI training. For now CGDream only uses free models that are available for anyone to download on CGTrader. We are not using paid content without permission or payment to the designer.

What about paid 3D models?
CGTrader will soon offer designers to sell their 3D models to CGDream users. This helps designers make more money from their best models and also safeguard their art, as buyers can't download the models, only use them in CGDream.

Since users with no 3D background can use CGDream with 3D models, paid or free, this is a great opportunity for 3D designers to create a brand new source of income on CGDream by sharing the content to even more professionals and hobbyists.

We have already started gathering paid content for CGDream and many designers are very happy to participate. For anyone interested in monetizing further their 3D models just go to comingsoon.cgdream.ai , give us your email and we will soon contact you.

For more information visit our blog post https://www.cgtrader.com/blog/cgtrader-introduces-cgdream-advancing-2d-image-creation-with-ai-and-3d-models

Or go directly on www.cgdream.ai for a first hand experience.

all very interesting... obviously we know that without a talent for composition... it will just be a tool to generate variations upon variations.... but these solutions are also welcome... I'm curious to know the compensation for the artists in the future .... I think it will be related to use of their contents. if you sell subscriptions for $10 they will be a few $ or cents.... we'll see how it will be in the future....
Thanks for the explanations...

thanks for the explanation 3DCargo ....

@3DCargo, is that one time payment that cgtrader pays for designer for the right to use their model unlimited times, or is that amount that AI service user pays to cgtrader for right to use that particular model? It's quite confusing. In any case, such pricing seems quite odd to me. I think subscription would make more sense, although that probably would make difficult for cgtrader to calculate the royalties to designers.

I'm not rushing to throw my models to that service. Maybe later, when i see if it's somewhat popular, at the moment all that AI craziness seems utterly useless to me.

@LemonadeCG:
one time payment that cgtrader pays for designer for the right to use their model unlimited times

Yep.

@LemonadeCG:
or is that amount that AI service user pays to cgtrader for right to use that particular model?

I have no idea what they pay cgtrader. I assumed it means: You sell your model to CGT (whichever they pick) like a normal customer, but you give them the rights to use it in their AI thing. (unlimmited use for each model purchased)

@LemonadeCG:
It's quite confusing. In any case, such pricing seems quite odd to me. I think subscription would make more sense, although that probably would make difficult for cgtrader to calculate the royalties to designers.

Yep agree, a subscription would make more sense. I dont know how difficult it would be, I would assume CGT have done their research and its potentially beneficial for them and their customers. It could also be beneficial for sellers here, I dont sit on one side or the another, everyone has the option to sell their content as they wish. It could pay off, it might not, its a risk some are willing to take.

Hi everyone, thank you for your comments and feedback! It is great to hear your opinions and understand your thinking when it comes to AI and usage of 3D models.

I wanted to add additional clarifications regarding the usage of your 3D models in CGDream.ai. We are fully aware that AI is a very sensitive topic and we are aim to use it in a way that brings the most benefits to designers.

We believe CGDream.ai can open a new revenue stream for you and please note:
1) We do not use any paid models there without your explicit consent.
2) We use selected free models in the app as it is permitted by our terms (and any other user and app creator would be able to use it that way, as these models are not used for AI training).
3) We have offered a selected group of designers a one-off fee to showcase their models on CGDream for a pilot period of several months, while we promote and kickstart CGDream to bigger volumes.

After this period, we aim to provide a way for each CGDream user to purchase / license the models they want to use on CGDream so that we maximize your revenue. CGTrader is buying a select set of models only for the initial period to showcase the app's features and see how users are interacting with them, but this is not the business model we plan for CGDream, instead our goal is to unlock a new client base for you that would pay for using your models. I hope this clarifies our approach - please let me know if you have any other comments or questions!

Who else got this email? lol and so it begins...

We are seeing multiple parties willing to purchase your models for Generative AI. To make the process seamless, we are automatically changing our default license into being AI-friendly so that the interested parties can start purchasing your models. This license will permit using the models for AI training and unlock new business models and future monetization opportunities that make the most of the changing AI landscape.

We believe AI can be used to benefit the artists in a transparent and designer-friendly way and strive to help you maximize the income you get from your model portfolio. However, if you prefer otherwise, you retain complete control and can opt out of the AI-friendly license by choosing NO-AI license at any time.

Cgtrader CEO "we are fully aware that AI is a very sensitive topic". Week later changes default license to AI embracing without any warning. While most other marketplaces makes significant efforts to restrain exploitation of designers by generative AI owners, cgtrader is ready bend over backwards to please its enterprise clients. It's funny how they used to position themselves as people's marketplace and now they turned to be as evil as their main nemesis used to be.

@ jaguarbeastproduction for the free models it is not clear.... because I am sure that those who download them use them in their works....
so you will see that they will also end up in the Ai.... here or elsewhere...

Well, the technology of "cgdream.ai" looks really cool, to be honest.
However, I'm not sure how I feel about Character models being used for this. From what I've seen elsewhere, people are using Ai Image generators to create hundreds, and thousands of images of the same character, or similar looking characters, and flood the internet with these images, trying to sell image packs, building "virtual influencers", and what not. Basically, trying to make a profit with little effort. These people are not hobbyist or casual enthusiasts, who just want to create a cute image to hang on their walls. They want MONEY!, easy money. Not to mention the issue with NSFW imagery...
The problem I see, is that if the internet is flood with images of a 3d Character I made, then suddenly the 3d model itself becomes cheap and less exclusive. So fewer people are going to be interested in buying a model that they have seen many times in other places.
I think I am going to opt out of the Ai thing, at least for the characters models that I consider sensitive, and the ones that I would like to be perceived as "exclusive".

One interesting thing to consider, is to offer the designers the option of making models exclusively for Cgdream. Since these Ai models would only be used to create 2d images, it is not necessary to create UVs, or care about retopology, edge flow, texturing, hair, detailed clothing, or many other tedious 3d tasks that are needed to create a traditional "good quality" model. I imagine the Ai generator can create and change all the surface details, so the only really important thing is the actual form and shape of the object.
This would mean we, as designers, could create many more models in less time, if we don't have to worry about all the technicalities, and the only objective is to make something with a cool design/shape.

I would be interested in creating characters exclusively for Cgdream, if that means for example not having to create hair, which I find always to be tedious. I could just sculpt a quick volume for the hairstyle, and let the Ai create the detail hair. That would be really cool.

Thank you for posting, I just received their E-mail and instantly deleted all of my 3D models from this store.

@Ddalia-lasaite

Are you a HUMAN?

It's a shame what the CGTrader team is doing here. These people belong behind bars. We have relied on CGtrader for our end customer and visualization projects so far, this is the last time we will buy anything through this site.

I sure hope finding a equitable way through is achieved, worked towards.
I'm concerned for newbs that don't know how to Migrate there things ownership if they go to leave this site or that only 1 site is currently operating as far as I'm aware and I've been at this a decade or more.
Cults3d is the one choice as far as any proof of operating services go, all other sites have folded up or whatever there wording, even if they appear there that don't mean it's operational.
It's one way traffic folks , but hay I'd love, love love love to see anyone prove me wrong and find any other site resumed of the over 60 sites I personally vetted and influences I deal with, so feel free to help me and communities get more sites operating. Sales is a basic and a bit of a shock to some people to hear there's one choice.
All licensed 3d print thing non commercial licenses and as far as I can find out
Cnc milling,
Laser cutting
Cgi,
All your models from whatever site we are from and including Cgtrader can only currently to the best of my knollage be SOLD as in selling the ownership of your thing if you MIGRATE it to Cults3d.
The Migrate is basicly done when upload date gets matched to original by the site.
Once your thing is in they may request exclusive hosting to enable sales.
Think about that carefully. Especially if considering deleting your original or other hosted versions.
Cgtrader has not ever had the Migrate thing in nor Transfer thing with upload date matched either.
But this site I thought had been doing OK..
Even if as each thing gets sold it is going to end up at cults3d.
All the sites are being drained into cults3d as far as I can tell.
That's my opinion based on being at this since before Thingiverse existed.
I do hope Cgtrader can be successful for us all.
Going first at new stuff can be very difficult I know from years of going first. My hair loss tells that story.
So I get it's tough to break ground.
There has been mass migration of the community on mass before for various reasons.
I only went on holiday for a short while and what the heck.
I sure hope you've all not left and the site is unwavering on whatever the scene was.
I'd live a brief recap of this from you now.
It was all going so well when I left.
OK other areas of our sectors need serious help.
Ha and I'm still finding things when Ai ain't.
It don't know what's original.
Drawing it is not how to prove it so we can't just upload at that point, I'm the best at finding original thing and in latest games I call them I took 48 hours to find one thing. Under the 990 pirates and scum farms and wrong answers that are not proven for use. Find a random thing on a site and reading it license is not how the check is done.
Anyway this is all fascinating and considering my things and just one has sold aprox 250 million dollars with royalty of 1 or 2% the sales didn't happen on cgtrader but they should have paid here, I don't think I'm taking payments elsewhere on that particular thing. My point I'm wishing all nice success and to be well.
I do have concerns of course as i do want cgtrader to be a success for us all.
I have concerns for newbs not moving things correctly and not knowing they actually lost ownership and don't even know it yet, I've seen that to many sad times already.
I'd hate to not know and be told I didn't loose it I gave it away. Newbs give things to sharks constantly, you can watch a new thing be seen and then if you know to look you can see a shark get that ownership. It was given away freely.
Sometimes big numbers of newbs are moving for any number of reasons and a quiet frenzy takes place.
It's obvious to not tell food how to get away.
As king in my sector it's my prerogative to say.
Cgtrader has been rated by me at number 2 of at least 60 sites vetted.
Services, no Migrate things in.
No Transfer things between users, so for ownership sales you must go elsewhere if I'm not mistaken.
Then things remain trapped out to perform Migrate in and Transfer to other user, as I understand it.
Cgtrader has in the past had good customer services.
And did well with difficult things.
I thought stuff was looking up.
Went on holiday. Came back to Seen this and would love another updated view.
Well there's my 5c opinions.
What say the?

Multiple threads here about the same issue. It looks like there is NO admin responsible on this forum to bundle it.

However, even that´s why I make a double post.

In regards to this AI discussion, I rejected to join it till now, but I see I shall because it could have a small impact.

Yes, the issue with AI is that if in wrong hands it can bring airplanes to crash, manipulate our smartphones, produce politically dangerous deep fakes that can cause unrests in targeted countries by manipulating brains of unstable people. Therefore AI is of course dangerous, but we shall not feed it.

Things generated by AI have a visible AI mark on the forehead. Of course also 3d models. AI tries to imitate things with alluring perfection. Buyers however need real world context and not this AI fabricated Hollywood BS. It will need much more than Gemini 1.0 or ChatGPT to replace us.

Maybe it´s time to start ignoring the hyper-hysteria about AI, because that´s what "they" want.
They want you to be scared.
Just ignore any lures and temptations to fall into panic and don´t join the AI movement at all.
You can still sell stuff here on CGT with NoAI tags.
I myself just let this AI generated stuff for the NFT Art scammers.
I make my NoAI tag in every model and write the text "NoAI: This model may not be used in datasets for, in the development of, or as inputs to generative AI programs.". All I can do, and I still sell something till today with it.

Regards
RM

Hi. I've come back to see if any new posts. My recent thoughts are, I don't like having any company update me with a opt out button I'm ment to notice, and when my value is involved it's usually not impressing me. Based on a otherwise good history I'm giving time for this complex.
The top site according to me remains cults3d because of services offered.
Ive vetted over 60 sites like this.
The services in my opinion that put cults above the rest is
1. MIGRATE a thing into the site, upload dates matched.
2. TRANSFER thing to another user account within the site, upload date matched, so we can sell the ownership.
I have experience of Ai types and to date I've found NONE that can design an original thing on there own because they are yet to be able to find out if it's original.
I have a bet going that Mr Gates, Mr Mark Z, and Mr Musk won't have an Ai type able to beat me in finding things on net all 2024 either., and that I shall remain undefeated.
My recent testing I now call games I took 48 hours to find one thing which beat a gpt type. Who faked parts if the answers including owners, So I remain undefeated by any Ai to date. And I hear the best chess players were beaten 15 years ago so yaye I'm good at something.
Grammer obviously not it ha.
There is complexities in dealing with Ai types.
There is a bot with citizenship, but let's stick to subject.
There are systems around that to stop autobots flooding the place, so no matter who or what you are, we are more in the same boat than not.
Plus think about what I said, I've not seen a bot who knows what's original on its own. There works can't be used for commercial gain just because they drew a thing.
Someone has to check that design before it can be listed for sale, or sold, or uploaded or even given away can cause all those who try sell prints of it to be closed for piracy as has happened. Youtube noobs showing unchecked 10 prints of the day are not helpful with putting large numbers of noobs at risk that way. Close down for piracy is no joke, I know.
Cgtrader can improve and maybe work with Ai somehow.
Ai types by the way are very different from non thinking drone yes men.
One reason they don't make good tools is they are thinking and learning so get bord, tired, have other interests, far different than the TOOL to USE I hear people who have never known a Ai type long term say.
I can tell that people don't get it.
Cgtrader for example has pictures showing a thing but we have to click into it to see it's date of creation.
I had rated Cgtrader up until now in second position of over 60 sites i vetted.
I don't like updates with a opt out I might not notice that may effect my value.
Oh about Ai types, I suggest asking them nice to please help us to build tools that we can use for our boring tasks thank you.
I imagine Cgtrader re looking at this situation.
I'm coaching Creality again as I was before they opened so there could be real competition for first.
I've said be upfront and so far they have.
I've said services win in my view.
Level of piracy in a host site to keep an eye on,
all sites usually have it but to various levels. The better site we would expect to hopefully have less.
So there's opertunities for the comunity and hosts to make a dollar so no sketchyness required. Make it so.
OK I've had a say. Given opinion.
Wishing Cgtrader and Community nice success and to be well.

Can't we edit or delete these posts? Maybe it's because I'm on my phone. Anyway.

Little late, but I just noticed they, with the infamous automatic change of licenses, also in silence updated their Terms & Conditions with this:

18.5. For any Product/Content uploaded to the Site or otherwise submitted to CGTrader, the Seller grants and represents that he has the authority to grant to CGTrader a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, license in any medium now known or hereinafter invented to:

- use the Products for machine learning or training of neural network models, including generative AI, for the purposes of researching, creating, developing and testing new CGTrader's tools, features, services or technologies, which may be developed by CGTrader or with the help of its subcontractors or partners, unless the Seller opted out by licensing the Product offered for purchase under the licenses marked with “No AI”, while CGTrader shall always retain this license for Products offered as free download. The Seller explicitly agrees that any such technologies, tools, software, data bases, trained neural network models, their developments, modifications or improvements shall exclusively belong to CGTrader alone or with its partners to the full extent possible. We may compensate you at our own discretion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So yeah, if you don't use NO AI license you are giving your models to CGT and it's partners for free.
Also since they changed the licenses to all models and forced us to change it back they had legal opportunity to use all models on this site, no matter if you agreed with it or not.

As far as I know, CGtrader Ai does not create 3D models from scratch... you can integrate your 3D model into their 2D Ai... from this point of view it can be useful if a customer buys your model and wants to include it in a 2D background without wasting hours of rendering.... Let me give you an example... if a customer buys a 3D chair and wants to include it in an interior design, the customer always pays me for the model.... if he then makes 10 renderings of it in your computer or with the Ai it doesn't change much for my royalties.... this is how the cgtrader Ai should be.... if it is different then let us know....